Articles & Interviews > "I DIDN'T MÁDE IT!"

Source: Nieuwe Revu (Dutch magazine, may 2002)

Interview by Robert Vuijsje
(translated for the site from Dutch by Latti)


Holland's most succesfull director Paul Verhoeven received the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Festival Of Fantastic Film in Amsterdam. But he refuses to look back at his career with fullfilment;"It's just me. Very childish."

When did you know that you made it in Hollywood?
"To make it" doesn't exist. Life is existential. We go trough life, try some things on the way and see if it works. In the moviebusiness it's about getting money/funds for the next film. To achieve succes is the best method to simplify the possibilities for new films, that's all. And eventually we will all die. Maybe later in life, you will realize that too, if you have 'made it', like you call it. Or maybe not.

You don't see how well things went for you in Amerika?
That's how people maybe look at it from the outside, but I see it from the inside. My life revolves around making movies. The only thing that is on my mind, is the next film. And I'm not satisfied about the present developments at that area, so now I'm dissatisfied with my full professional life.

You are the man that, when arriving in Hollywood, meant relatively nothing and subsequently made it there. What's wrong with recognizing that?
You keep going on about "making it". I didn't máke it! It's as if you missed the full existential revolution of the past hundred years. Do you ever even open a book? Life is not to be described in such infantile terms.

I only think I'm trying to ask you a reasonable simple question.
I'll explane one more time. My position as a movie-director in Holland became untenable in the eighties. The way I had to present my projects for the Production Funds to get their approval, was humiliating. I had to go down on my knees to get some funding. In the seventies, films were judged by the Funds, by the criterium if it would draw an audience. With the admittance of Mr Jan Blokker in the Production Funds, suddenly everything had to be socially and culturally responsible. He destroyed Dutch film.

If I may just interrupt you for a moment: twenty years after, and you still mention Jan Blokker in every interview. You don't recognize the enormous discrapency and unsignificance of this ancient quarrel?
So, now that "I made it", I'm not allowed to worry about anything?

You may do what you please. My question is why do you make yourself smaller/ more insignificant, than you actually became in the mean time?
It's like Johan Cruijff picking a fight with Co Adriaanse, who is ten levels beneath him. What's that all about? Can't Dutch people be superstars??
I just like crossing that man (Jan Blokker) with every chance that I get. Blokker said that after so many years, I should stop whining about him. For me, that's a reason to argumentate in every interview that he has been a disaster for the Dutch film. Hoping you will write it down, and particularly, that he will read it. It doesn't have anything to do with Dutchmanship, it's just me. Very childish. After all, we all shit and piss, despite of how much we accomplished. That's the level Jan Blokker is at, he means the same for me as taking a shit.

Back to your story. You had to get away from Holland.
I was 'kaltgestellt' (german for 'thrown out in the cold'). Every movie that I proposed, was rejected. It wasn't like I especially wanted to go to America, the invitation just so happened to come from America. I was offered Robocop, but I didn't really wanted to do it. After my wife advized me to do it, who litterally took the script out of the trash-can, I did it anyway.

Robocop was an instant succes, followed by Total Recall and Basic Instinct. A Dutch director has never before accomplished that in Hollywood.
You just don't want to understand. We are talking about an 'authentic life', these are simplistic terms in which I can't work with. The image of me sitting back and relaxing, thinking about how good my movies supposively are; it doesn't exist. Having been succesfull, that's nothing to me. You always need to move on to the next project. I came to Hollywood and tried to make movies. I noticed that it succeeded, and that every film was followed by another. That's how synoptical it is.

You didn't came to Amerika with a plan?
No! My point of view was the existental fear of never being able to make movies in Holland again. Billy Wilder went to Amerka out of fear as well, although his existential fear had another source. I don't differenciate at all compared to other immigrants. Everybody enteres this country the same way. The man that takes care of my garden came here because he didn't have anything to eat in Mexico. He can send his children to university now. That's the exact same victory that I have reached. The only difference is that I came to this country with a better education. Making Robocop, to me, was less of an obstacle than my lack of capacity to learn Greek and Latin at school.

This hasn't changed; never felt the need to learn some decent English? Or is that part of your charm?
I speak it well enough to direct movies in Amerika.

Your charm: there are all these juicy stories about romances between you and other actresses from your films. How about that?
During the shoot of Basic Instinct, to a certain extent Sharon Stone and I were in love. The result of the decision to eventually not sleep with her, was certainly captured on screen. I was so intrigued by Sharon that my gigantic interest in her is to be seen in every single shot that features her. By not giving in to the temptation, the movie got more exciting. The mystery had to keep excisting. If I hád gone to bed with her, the tension would have been gone instantly. The illusion would have been wrecked by the reality. Maybe I threw away my biggest chance in life and maybe we could have been very happy together, but the most important thing was the movie itself.

What was the outcome of this psychological game when the work was finished?
Then, because of all of the tension, she didn't want me anymore.

And you still wanted her?
No, not even. The making of such a film takes 14 weeks. When that tension keeps existing, but not given into, at a certain point it just stops. The relationship got run off the rails.

Is that the reason why Showgirls wasn't a good movie? If I have to believe American Rhapsody, the book by Joe Eszterhas, the writer of Basic Instinct and Showgirls, it was leading lady Elizabeth Berkley that was telling all kinds of stories on the set, about romantic adventures with you..
Of course Joe Eszterhas lies about everything. He lies the truth, and he does it so well, that it seems true.

What does your wife think about all this?
During the shoot of Basic Instinct I asked Martine if I should sleep with Sharon. She advised me not to do it, otherwise I would have lost adherence with the movie. She noticed that very well, although that advice fitted her position as well. It's all supposed to be so prudish now, but I was there in the seventies.

You have an 'open marriage'?
I think you mean 'understanding'. We used to have that, sure. But even then, situations developed every time in a way that you just have to call existential. In the end, the other doesn't like it after all. Now, the need for it has kinda faded away. But the attraction with women never ceases to exist.

Do you regret Showgirls? It was your first American picture that didn't work out?
'Regret' doesnt exist; that word has no meaning at all. Life is as it is. It isn't to be expressed in terms like 'regret'. Yes, the possibilities for a next picture were not as favorable after Showgirls as after Basic Instinct. Dat was unfortunate, but nothing more than that. You constantly want to mythologize, but that's not right. We are already poised with mythology. The Greeks did it, the Christians, the jews, a few hundred years later the islamics. You don't understand the proportions of it.

I just don't believe that you see things in such a black-and-white kind of way. Befóre you went to Amerika, you earned a couple of ten-thousand guilders for one movie, you had to get some money from your parents to buy a house. Now you are a succesfull film director in Hollywood. That is a big difference.
Not for me, not in the way how I think about life. It gave my parents a lot of pleasure, being able to give me a house. That's another way to look at it. Furthermore, eventually they should have given it to me with the inheritance anyway. It's not about money.

However, I don't believe you never think about everything you achieved with some content.
Sure I think back sometimes. But it's more interesting for an interview if I take a stand in some way. You have a certain image of me that you want to see confirmed, but I'm not playing that game. I don't want to confirm the obvious. But I dó mean what I say. The drive and the energy in my life comes from the next movie.

Where did that ambition originally started?
I have mentioned before that it originated from the headmastership of my father at the school that I was attending. Therefore I felt the need to get the highest grades and be the best in everything. But did I obtain the highest grades because of my father, or was I just the best student? I don't like to psychologize that much.

Something else: Do you keep up with Dutch politics?
Back then I didn't really kept up with the Srebenica situation, but it seemed like the right decisions for the parlement to depart. They should do the same in other countries: draw the right conclusions from a failing policy. Like Israel for instance, unfortunately that country has become fascist.

It's a conflict between two erroneous parties..
The Jews can't rely on the Bible to domestice land of their own. It all comes down to this:'God is not a broker'. That is a quote from Gore Vidal, if you happen to know who he is.

You were the smartest kid in class, you constantly emphasize your general knowledge and that you are very well-read, and now you are only allowed to make science fiction movies...?
In a nuttshell, yes.

Is that frustating?
Sometimes I think of the misery I have gotten myself into just because I, once, some time ago, commited myself to science fiction.. I never should have done that. Back then, 'Robocop' was the only entrance that I had. It just happened that way. Now the people in Hollywood consider as 'that guy from the science fiction movies'. I rarely get offered something else. Sometimes some thrillers, because of 'Basic Instinct'. But they are never as good as 'Basic Instinct'. I could make a romantic comedy. I could direct a movie like 'My Best Friend's Wedding', I can relate to that kind off lightness. But I never get asked for such projects. It's frustating, but it doesn't tear me apart. Actually, getting back to your very first question, an example comes to mind.
Around the time 'Robocop' was released, I was having a coffee with Martine, Jan de Bont and his then wife Monique van de Ven. There was a cinema across the street, with a very long line that was actually going around the corner. All people who wanted to see 'Robocop'. I didn't feel like I "made it", but it indeed, at that very moment, became very tangible that the movie was working. And yes, that was really nice.

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